Insights

The issue up for discussion is whether the instrument training time for an Instrument Rating can be counted toward the instrument requirement for the Commercial Pilot certificate. The answers are maybe, it really come down to how it was logged.

The root issue is that the items listed as required training in accordance with 61.65 are not the same instrument training items listed in 61.129. So, during your instrument training if you did specifically what was contained in 61.65 it would not meet the requirements of 61.129. However if the CFII conducting your 61.65 instrument training also incorporates the items of 61.129 and documents it as such then the training for 61.65 for the instrument would also be meeting the requirements of 61.129 and thus the applicant could double-dip.

Below are the various legal interpretations that address this, we’ll get the answer to this pressing question as well as discuss the required CFI qualifications (CFII or not) for instrument instruction given to Private/Commercial Pilot certificate and Instrument Rating candidates, and what parts of the instrument experience for the instrument rating must be given by a CFII (as opposed flying with a regular CFI or safety pilot).

• Theriault (2010): Does an instrument rating meet the requirement §61.129(a)(3)(i) of 10 hours of instrument training for Commercial Pilot Certificate? It depends on what was done and how it was logged. (Unrelated, the legal interpretation also reiterates that an airplane on an IFR flight plan with the remark “VMC only” does not need to be IFR certified, see also FAA Order 8900.1, paragraph 5-439.)
• Theriault (2011): followup to Theriault (2010).
• Hartzell (2010): There is no exact equivalence between the training required for an instrument rating under §61.65 and the aeronautical experience requirements under §61.129, so there is no guarantee that an Instrument Rating satisfies all of the requirements of the 10 hours of instrument training needed for the Commercial Pilot Certificate, unless it is specifically marked as such. (However, it usually does at least partially, and often completely. Furthermore, examiners usually treat this issue fairly liberally.)
• Oord (2018): Simultaneous counting of instrument training for instrument rating and commercial pilot certificate is allowed, as long as it is clearly logged in a way that shows that the instrument training also met the commercial requirement of 61.129(a)(3).
• Grayson-2 (2010): Instrument Airplane rating needed on Flight Instructor certificate to conduct “instrument training” (towards a candidate’s Instrument Rating or Commercial Pilot certificate), but not needed for basic instrument maneuvers (3 hours) for Private Pilot training. Furthermore, category and class of aircraft must be on both the Commercial Pilot certificate as well as the Flight Instructor certificate, for an instructor to conduct “instrument training” in an aircraft.
• Kortokrax (2012): Reiterates Grayson-2 (2010) that a CFII providing “instrument training” must have category and class ratings as well as a corresponding (category-specific) instrument rating on her/his flight instructor certificate.
• Beard (2012): The rating requirements on a flight instructor certificate listed in Grayson-2 (2010) and Kortokrax (2012) apply to a CFII conducting “instrument training” in a flight simulator, FTD, or ATD, as well, because these devices simulate an aircraft.
• Jablecki (2016): In contrast to Grayson-2 (2010) valid for airplanes, an Instrument Helicopter rating is NOT required on a Flight Instructor certificate to give the five hours of instrument dual in a helicopter for the Commercial Pilot Helicopter certificate, because Section 61.129(c)(3)(i) only asks for “control and maneuvering of a helicopter solely by reference to instruments” (similarly to the phrasing for Private Pilot certificates, which can be given by non-CFIIs), not for “instrument training” (as is the case for Commercial Pilot Airplane certificates, 61.129(a)(3)(i)). Only “instrument training” requires an Instrument Rating on the Flight Instructor certificate, in the appropriate category (and class). 
• Grayson-3 (2010): Explanations for how instrument training with an instructor must be done with a CFII (15 hours), and how much instrument flight can be done with a safety pilot (remaining 25 hours, for a total of 40 hours). Regular CFI can give the 3 hours of instrument time required for Private Pilot (is not considered “instrument training” for Instrument Rating/Commercial Pilot certificate, but rather only “basic instrument maneuvers” and “control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments”).
• Rohlfing (2016): The 3 hours of “control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments” – required by 14 CFR 61.109(a)(3) for the Private Pilot (Airplane) certificate which can be given by a CFI who is not a CFII – can be counted towards the total 40 hours of instrument time required for an instrument rating by 61.65(d)(2), provided that these three (or more) hours are not counted towards the 15 hours of “instrument training” specifically required to be given by a CFII with an instrument-airplane rating on his CFI certificate. (Side note: It is also possible to train for your Private Pilot certificate and Instrument Rating concurrently, provided the instrument training is given by a CFII.)
• Sun (2011): The 2-hour commercial daytime and nighttime dual cross-country flights required for the Commercial Pilot certificate can be conducted under IFR and can be double-counted towards the instrument requirements for the Commercial Pilot certificate at the discretion of the instructor.

This can be a hot button topic, many believe the published traffic pattern at an airport in class G airspace is advisory. Further more there is a common belief that an instrument approach that results in a circling approach can circle any direction. Both are incorrect.

• Murphy (2009): Concerns 14 CFR §91.126(b)(1): even circle-to-land approaches must be conducted in the direction of the airport traffic pattern (to the left if not specified by airport markings otherwise). The pilot must comply with the regulation and does not have the discretion to determine which direction is better for his/her circle-to-land approach based on circumstances (e.g. because the wing blocks the view). On a separate topic, this interpretation also discusses student pilots logging PIC time during their FAA Practical Tests.
• Gossman (2011): Making a right turn to enter a traffic pattern is allowed even if the traffic pattern itself is to the left (e.g. the normal recommended right turn from a 45-degree entry midfield to downwind, see AIM). 14 CFR §91.126(b)(1) primarily applies once you are in the traffic pattern approaching to land.
• Collins (2013): Upholds Murphy (2009), but corrects that ATC does not have authority in Class G airspace to authorize deviations from the left-turn regulation. The “otherwise authorized or required” exception is very narrow and does not include convenience. Noncompliance with the left-turn regulation in the traffic pattern can lead to a suspension of the pilot’s certificate.
• Krug (2014): Concerns 14 CFR §91.126(a) and §91.126(b)(1) that turns at untowered airports in Class G airspace are to be made to the left unless indicated by airport markings or “otherwise authorized or required”. This legal interpretation specifies what “authorized and required” means. In particular, ATC has no authority to do so at an airport in Class G airspace (only at untowered airports where Class E goes all the way to the ground, see 14 CFR §91.127(a)), because it does not control traffic in Class G airspace. An acceptable authorization would have to come from an instrument approach procedure or other FAA regulation. This includes circling approaches after an instrument approach, which cannot be done in an arbitrary direction as stated in Murphy (2009) (the images in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook do not constitute a general authorization).

When preparing for an initial issuance of a Commercial Pilot Airplane Single or MultiEngine Land please review 61.129(a)(4). The text of the regulation below. (b)(4) is written in a similar way and applies to multiengine. In any case, the regulation gives the applicant strict choice between either being SOLO (i.e. sole occupant of aircraft… no friends, no spouse) or meeting the requirement performing the Duties of Pilot In Command (DPIC) with a CFI onboard. To be clear the intent in the DPIC aspect is that if a CFI must accompany you (perhaps because you are not allowed to take the plane solo) then the role of the CFI is not to teach, they are supposed to sit on their hands and let you do the work. At the conclusion of the flight the flight should NOT be logged as DUAL. Instead they sign it, and notate it as DPIC time to meet requirements of 61.129 (a) or (b) (4).

If you’re questioning the validity of this position please checkout Grannis (2016). This is a legal interpretation from the FAA, they summarize that the pilot (Commercial Pilot trainee) must strictly choose between performing all 10 hours solo or performing all 10 hours with an authorized instructor on board. It is not allowed to do a few hours solo and the rest of the 10 hours with an authorized instructor on board, because there is no “or any combination thereof” language in the regulation.

(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a single engine  airplane or 10 hours of  flight timeperforming the duties of  pilot in command in a single engine  airplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the  flight timerequirement under paragraph (a)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under § 61.127(b)(1) that include—

(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point. However, if this requirement is being met in Hawaii, the longest segment need only have a straight-line distance of at least 150 nautical miles; and 

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an  airport with an operating control tower.